Political commentator and podcast host Angela Rye masterfully pumped the brakes on an intrusion of her personal space from “Shark Tank” investor Kevin O’Leary during a recent, heated CNN panel discussion — and the entire exchange said a lot.
During a Wednesday night segment of “NewsNight with Abby Phillip,” the panelists discussed a New York Times report that President Donald Trump’s billionaire adviser Elon Musk donated the maximum allowable amount to GOP lawmakers who support impeaching federal judges impeding the Trump administration’s actions.
Rye, an attorney and former executive director and general counsel to the Congressional Black Caucus, was criticizing Musk when O’Leary appeared to touch her arm as he tried interjecting.
“You don’t have to touch me,” she told O’Leary before she continued with her remarks.
“I did that nicely,” O’Leary responded.
Rye then stopped again to address the investor directly.
“I don’t want you to touch me; that’s my personal space,” she said.
“I won’t ever do it again,” O’Leary responded.
The interaction between Rye and O’Leary resonated with many people on X, formerly Twitter. Some called O’Leary’s actions patronizing and celebrated Rye’s strong response.
One X user described O’Leary’s behavior as a microaggression, writing in another post: “He would never do that to a man. Good for her.”
Kari J. Winter, a professor of American studies at the University at Buffalo, told HuffPost that while the interaction between O’Leary and Rye was brief, it was a “historically loaded moment.”
She emphasized that there’s a long history of women being “touched in various kinds of unwelcome ways” — particularly in the workplace.
Rye claimed her space and set a clear physical boundary on air. Winter, whose expertise includes gender, feminism, race, class, slavery, the politics of food and literature, said that O’Leary’s demeanor and reaction to Rye completely missed the mark.
“I feel like that’s where it’s so emotionally charged, because when women claim their space, men kind of blame them — as if [women are] not being nice, not being accommodating,” she said.
And everyone has the right to set physical boundaries for themselves, such as not wanting someone you just met to hug you. As an article published for the University of California, Davis, health blog points out: “Boundaries help us maintain balance and foster healthy relationships.”
Read on for experts’ key takeaways from Rye and O’Leary’s exchange.
O’Leary’s behavior was inappropriate — and certainly not considered “nice.”
“What does it mean, ‘I touched you nicely?’” Winter asked, referencing O’Leary’s response to Rye.
She later said that the moment made her “sad” because it felt like she was “watching a kind of microaggression” that women are often subjected to — particularly women of color, who are “often just not permitted to have their personal space and their bodily integrity.”
Jodi Smith, an etiquette consultant who specializes in social and professional conduct, said that what O’Leary did was “not OK” and that she believed it was his attempt to “silence” Rye and “dominate the air-time.”
“He needed to wait his turn,” Smith said.
Don’t assume you can touch someone in a debate at the workplace. And the context of gender dynamics matters.
When it comes to any kind of workplace conduct, it’s important to consider the inequality and discrimination women have disproportionately faced in the workplace, such as gender pay gaps, gender stereotypes and sexual harassment.
Smith said that a man touching a woman in the workplace is “almost always a power-play.”
“A way of literally ‘putting a woman in her place,’” she said. “The touch is designed to remind the female that the man is seeking to establish, or reestablish, his dominance.”
Winter said that she wishes women didn’t have to be in the position of needing to speak up for themselves when it comes to claiming their personal space.
“I don’t think it’s too much to ask for there to be some professional standard” that people “won’t touch each other,” she said of the CNN segment.
“Somebody should not have to say on national TV, ‘Don’t touch me,’” she added.
“The path to gender equality in the workplace is paved with instances of unwanted touching, sexual harassment, blatant sexism, and even violence against women,” said Susan Hinze, associate professor of sociology and women’s and gender studies at Case Western Reserve University.
“This history, along with data showing that Black women are more likely to be targeted, can weigh heavily on the minds of women at work,” she continued.
Rye’s response to O’Leary was spot-on — and not always easy to do.
Hinze said she found Rye’s response “impressive.”
“Rye set a clear boundary, which was exactly right — and not always easy,” she said. “For some women, gendered socialization and the societal expectation that women should prioritize the feelings of others, especially men, over their own can result in a diminishment of their own needs — in this case, her need for personal space.”
“The only appropriate reaction to someone who is informed they are violating that need is to apologize,” she continued. “And not in a way that could be viewed as ‘malicious compliance.’”
Smith said Rye was “masterful”: “Without missing a beat or losing her train of thought, she reminded him of appropriate boundaries (twice!) while remaining professional and finishing what she had to say.”
Winter believes Rye’s reaction to O’Leary resonates with people online because she was “so professional and clear.”
“She very concisely identified the problem and said, ‘Don’t do it,’” she said.
As to the current state of the world and the political climate, Winter said that “a lot of us are in a moment of trauma” and are looking to see people “stand up for themselves.”
Here are some other key takeaways from the moment.
Smith said she would advise other women in professional environments who face a similar situation to do what Rye did: “Call out the inappropriate behavior while continuing to make your point.”
She also recommended that if you find yourself being touched in any way without your consent, you can “move slightly away” from that person, or say to them: “Please do not touch me, once I finish making my point, it will be your turn to have the floor.”
All in all, Smith said people should just keep their hands to themselves.
“This is kindergarten stuff!” she said, adding, “Shaking hands [at] the beginning and end of the interaction is polite professional protocol here in the United States.”
Winter pointed out that there might be cultural differences with what’s considered appropriate physical touch in certain situations, and that that’s why it’s crucial to have “professional guidelines” in workplaces.
“You don’t know if the person you’re reaching out to touch — that might be normal to you ... [but] you don’t know how that’s going to be received, or how that would feel,” she said, adding “You don’t know the history of that person and their experience with violence or violation in the past.”
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“I would really like a professional space and a cultural space that acknowledges Angela Rye’s and other women’s right to have their personal space, their bodily integrity — and not have it violated,” she added.